Jaan shares his story of how he went from building the Elektritakso business [Translated: Electric Taxi] to starting his own media empire. Now his newsletter is one of the most entertaining yet useful newsletters in the industry. He shares some tips on how he keeps his consultancy in producing enjoyable content, keeping a 50% open rate for his newsletter (which is very high), and why he does what he does.
On top of that he has created among other things two epic tools: EVuniverse.io data map, that shows all the major connections in the EV industry (OEM suppliers, both tier 1 and tier 2 up to which charging networks are the OEMs connected to) and the "EV stock tracker" Both are marvelous clusters of information.
This guy is amazing.
Let us know how you liked the episode. ✌
Jaan shares his story of how he went from building the Elektritakso business [Translated: Electric Taxi] to starting his own media empire. Now his newsletter is one of the most entertaining yet useful newsletters in the industry. He shares some tips on how he keeps his consultancy in producing enjoyable content, keeping a 50% open rate for his newsletter (which is very high), and why he does what he does.
On top of that he has created among other things two epic tools: EVuniverse.io data map, that shows all the major connections in the EV industry (OEM suppliers, both tier 1 and tier 2 up to which charging networks are the OEMs connected to) and the "EV stock tracker" Both are marvelous clusters of information.
This guy is amazing.
Let us know how you liked the episode. ✌
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of forget oil podcast. So today I have a guest that I have a feeling that I, this is not the first time I'm going to ask you to be here. It's just what you had done and what you're, what you're doing is just so fascinating for me. So, uh, I'm talking to yarn eurekas, who is the former, I'm a former board member of the board for a elected doxa, which is a taxi taxi company, uh, in a stoner that uses only electric taxis and then, uh, elected Luxor in, uh, uh, ice, um, as a member, a member of the board as well. But what is more fascinating for me is that what you're doing right now will be Evie universe. So, um, the news that you sent is it is like so detailed, like cover so many topics. It's like one of the newsletters I read is a electronic newsletter. And, uh, I would say like your, your, your newsletters have like more energy to it. And I know that some of the like industry leaders are, are, are reading your newsletter. So it is very, very fascinating for me. Plus I believe that, uh, you, you must be one of the most, um, informed person in Estonian about what's happening in global markets, because you research that topic so much to understand correctly.
Speaker 3:Uh, I don't know if I'm, uh, the most informed person in Estonia, but I do try hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I like the material you have to go through to content state the best things for the newsletter. It's just massive, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Um, well, first of all, thanks for the kind words they comparing me with direct drive is, is nice. Uh, they're, they're quite big and they're doing a lot of work. I'm actually sometimes referencing their material as well because they have the original articles. Right. And they cite their sources as well as well, like I do. But, um, when it comes to materials, um, just an example, usually within a week, uh, if I'm away for some whatever reason before doing the newsletter that I send out every Thursday, right. I usually do it, uh, uh, do some work on it every day, but if I'm away for a week and then just jump in, then the data points that I gather automatically just to look through, uh, to see what's worthy of covering and what's not, and what's important and what's not, uh, it's usually about 1000 data points per week. So that's what I'm going through just to find out that like the best.
Speaker 2:Okay. So that's a data point for you is a one article,
Speaker 3:Uh, it's an article, press release, uh, whatever. Right. And you know, that that's just one part of the equation, right. Because the other part of the equation is, uh, the community behind the industry and the owners. Right. So, because I'm active on the electric groups, forums, uh, Twitter, all these kinds of channels, I get access to the kind of information that even not the breasts release color. Right. And, uh, and, uh, that's why there's like an extra twist to it as well. And then of course you have to tie them all together. Right. So you have to see that, Hey, you got the press release, but now you also have to kind of put it into context. Right. And through the connections with, uh, other kind of, uh, the whole, the whole industry. So
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very, very, um, uh, it's one thing to get to here to, uh, read that press release that the Tesla is going to make their public, uh, their charges public. But what does it mean then? Exactly. So that's, that's, that's what you do as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I, I tried the deep dive, uh, sometimes, uh, for example, with the Tesla one, I don't know if you, if you saw my deep dive on that, what would the opening of the supercharger network mean? Right. So I kind of tried to get the, uh, what, what will it mean for the company? What will it mean for the Edo owner? What will it mean to, uh, either Tesla owners or other Evie owners, right. What's going to change to each participant of this equation. So it's, uh, it's a lot of like, um, you know, uh, I'm saying, like I said today on the conference that, uh, I'm almost like I lived in a cave for one year just to get myself really deep into this EBV universe. Right. I call it the, like, the name that, that EDU universe that I run. Uh, I'm also using it as a, like, uh, you know, what, what do you call it? The noun. So this is what we're talking about. We were talking about the whole ecosystem, right? So it's, it's the ed university ed verse, or however you call it, just choosing to call this ecosystem, the universe.
Speaker 2:Okay. So you, you were a member of the board in a, in a electric doxa and then you decided like, Hey, I'm going to do newsletters. I'm going to do immediate business. Uh, we're gonna, I'm gonna, like, as far as I understand, like just starting your own, let's, let's call it the blog for the sake of simplicity.
Speaker 3:I like it. I'm calling it my own media empire empire. That's what I'm building at least.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true. And so, uh, so you decided to do that for, for a, for a reason, what was the reason of why?
Speaker 3:Um, as much as the loved working, uh, in electric electric, uh, I mean, the, it was super challenging because I was constantly inventing new ways to do stuff. Right.'cause, it's, it's a really, it's not just a taxi company, right. And it's not just a taxi company using electric, electric cars who are doing everything different. Right. So, uh, so it's a really good environment to learn. And, uh, and to grow, there was only one problem was that the everyday operations took so much of my time that I didn't, uh, I joined Electrolux or because of the electric cars, right. Uh, about five years ago. And I ended up not having time to realize like, what's happening in the electric car industry what's happening. I, I didn't even have time for, uh, seeing what models are out there if it isn't suitable for taxi. Right. But I, I wanted to, so, so I kinda decided that I'm going to take that time just to get to know, uh, what's what's happening. And then I just did like a part part-time for a few months. And then, uh, I quite randomly, uh, found an investor from the U S uh, that helped me transfer from my everyday work in Electra toxo to being full time, building out the CV universe right now. So, so of course they expect something for it to go somewhere. But I mean, for me, I know that I'm building like a 10 to a hundred million Euro worth kind of a company, but for me, the money, isn't the best part. This part, the important part here, right? I'm building this empire. I want to, if you want to go no, where the EBU nearest will go or grow into, it will be one ecosystem that will, you will log into. And if you're a free member, you will get access to like snippets from a part of this. And if you're a paid member, well, you have to kind of fund it somehow. Right. I don't want to fill it with that. So there is a paid membership that's coming sometime soon, and you will have the, uh, you will see the, the newsletters that I do right now, right. The information, but it will be, you know, continuous. Okay. The news, isn't the most important thing there that, that, that, that's it. Sorry. Right. So we will have the access to the databases. And, you know, since I'm building this universe, everything is connected, right. So whenever you have a mention of something in the news or in the data sets, you have the connections between themselves, then you will see that new podcasts and you will see the, the community part right. Where the real magic happens. Right. Because right now the members consist of so many, like, uh, high profile industry people already. And also at the same time we have, uh, ed owners and like hardcore ed enthusiasts. Right. Like myself as an owner and an enthusiast. Right. So I'm calling myself an EDD geek. All right. Yeah. But, uh, yeah. So, so there's like 20 or 30 components that I want to tie together. And that's like the whole picture. That's where I'm going.
Speaker 2:What are the components that you have separate, um, like newsletters for infrastructure, for car manufacturers? Like, how would you explain it? Like what type of, uh, parts?
Speaker 3:Well, that's the thing like the newsletter itself, uh, right now, even, it's not like the only selling point, right. It's not the only kind of, uh, feature that I'm building, I'm building more and more resources that tie into these newsletters. Okay. So, so right now we've built a industry map, right? So it's over 600 connections between automakers, their models, like electric models, uh, charging infra, uh, where do they get their batteries? You know, the whole supply chain and even the people behind it. And this will explode into 10 thousands of kind of connections. Right. It will go grow big. And then, uh, the stock market ties into it. Right. So the stock tracker that I built, uh, as a, like an NVP on the Google sheets that has like 118 stocks listed. Right. So I have like, uh, uh, for example, a CFO of a major, uh, charging infrastructure provider. That's, we're talking billions of market cap here says that, Hey, I'm using this your stock director just to keep, uh, you know, uh, my, uh, kind of competition and myself in line. Right. To see how everything kind of pans out a nice, so, so it's just like a really basic
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you've developed all these tools just for fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Basically. Yeah. I just saw that, Hey, I would want to see this myself and that's why I'm I just made it so everybody else could see it as well. So, um, I'm really focused on mapping the whole picture, because if you see the electric car driving on the street, you wouldn't know that, Hey, there's like 30 of them here today. Right. So it's the same with ed industry. Like you don't know, uh, if you see just snippets of what's one thing happening here, and another, there, you don't know the connections, right? He has no, it ties into a really big industry picture. And only when you see the big pictures, you will see where the gaps are. Right. Where are the opportunities? So that's what I'm kind of trying to build, like one source for all of the information and entertainment you need on this topic, like really in this niche, or
Speaker 2:It was like, I was about to just ask you, like why to do, to take care of all these data points. But I think you answered it. It's quite, uh, quite well that if you see like the big picture, then you can see where the gaps are. Is there any other reason why it makes sense for you to do what you do? Okay.
Speaker 3:Well, it's fun for me. Yeah. I mean, I've been an electoral head for, I think, five plus years now. And I, I don't see any turning back. Like I would never turn back to an ice car myself and I just, I mean, I have two kids now, so I'm, I'm doing this as a part of legacy as well. Right. So I can build a better future for my children. I mean, it sounds cheesy. Right. But it's true. It's, it's a major motivation point. Right. But most of it, it's just fun for me. And it's getting more and more fun by the way, every day I do this because I meet so many new people from the industry, from enthusiasts, from the owners. I mean, uh, it's been a fun ride, like, like, uh, someone who, uh, asked us here to the ABB, uh, event that you're in right now
Speaker 2:The a day. Yeah. That's really cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. And so when asked me here, just because he's a reader of the universe, so he just reached out to come here and speak to others as well. What's your writing.
Speaker 2:And it's really quite hard to[inaudible] it's quite hard to get you to Dysport Catholic. We have tried it for a month. And so what we're doing here right now is we're sitting in a, in a, in a Tesla, Tesla model three, like there's an, event's still going there. There's like, there's probably like 15 year EVs here. People are eating pies and they're a little bit like wrapping up here and that, and I really wanted to make this podcast, like, even if it means like doing inside of the car, but what is interesting for me. And he said, that was interesting for you. So I'm going to need to ask you what is interesting for you? What, what gets you excited? What is, uh, what is something that, uh, you, you do for fun or kind of like for hobby? Um, like what is especially exciting for you?
Speaker 3:You mean outside of the space or here
Speaker 2:You can answer both.
Speaker 3:Okay. Because, uh, well the main, the most interesting part about, uh, doing what I do right now, he's, uh, he's tying it all together. Right. So for me, I've always been this kind of, uh, a person that doesn't want to go into details too much. Like I do now, right. With the newsletter, because I want to tie it in together, but I I've never wanted to specialize too much. Like I don't have that patience for it usually. So I'm usually going for more broad skills just to know, know a bit about everything. Right. And then have some very, very few that I, I go deeper in. And this is exactly one of the, one of the things that gets me excited enough to really dig deeper, deeper. And then at the same time, I can be the one building out these big pictures, that other stones. Right. Because I still haven't seen, um, I mean, there's like two sites. There's a, I just did a podcast with, uh, Joseph contests, that guy, uh, who has been reporting EDD numbers, sales numbers from 2012. And he said, well, that, um, there's like two sides of, uh, ed industry news reporting is either full ended entertainment. So it's like the Tesla YouTube channels and that kind of stuff, or it's for informative, like electronic, right. So they're, they're going for the press release. They don't put their own voice into it. Really. They put the information into it, but they don't put their voice into it. So I'm somewhere in the middle. Right. So I'm, I'm, I'm always putting my voice into it. I try to make some jokes. I don't know if they, they don't always work for sure. Some are just my weird humor, but I, I never want to keep it like dry. So I'm trying to search for, I get a lot of stuff from the community. That's funny, whatever is funny is spreads well, right. So I'm always sharing those things. Wow. So, uh, so I'm kinda kind trying to do both here. So that's, that's really, what's interesting for me. That's why I keep doing it every day, because I mean, it kind of combines really well with my own skillset. I'm basically just researching information. Right. And then deciding what do I show you? Okay. What do you do? I'm going to set a researcher? Uh, no, no, I don't think so because a researcher, uh, is more specialized, right. Because the researcher will in my head at least will be a very like, um, produces like real original content from scratch. Right. What I do is that I curate content and I just put my voice into attend to connections, strong connections between them. Right. So, so I think my, uh, my level of how deep I go is too superficial, like, uh, just to call myself like a researcher, I'm more of a, like a curator that tries to make it fun. Okay. All right. So yeah. I don't know if there's a word for that. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You, you're having fun and you're sharing what you do with the world, basically. Yeah. A dream job. Right. It's not the job yet, but I'm hoping, you know, I'm hoping it won't become a job either. Right. So I'm treating this as a startup basically. So it's a, it's kind of like a media startup, but I'm, as I, as I'm time tying all these things together, I have no idea where it will go. Eventually. I just have like this grand vision of this unit.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, so what is your vision of what it, what needs to be done and what needs to be achieved for this to grow weak? And I'm telling you also, like, why am I I'm asking you, like, you probably have, uh, like a vision in yourself. Like where do you want to go? And you have a, probably like a vision of how you're going to get there. And I was wondering, are you willing to share?
Speaker 3:Sure. I don't think there's, uh, there's many people who would want to copy me. And even if they do, I mean, the main core of all of this is still promote electric mobility. Right. So I'm doing this in a I'm on a mission. Right. So this mission helps me to see everybody else that does the same thing, uh, doing a favor, right. To this mission. So you're doing this podcast. You could even say that you're trying to compete with me. Like we don't both do PV niche media. Right. But I see you as someone who helps expand the universe. Right. Not the brand, but the EBV kind of industry. So yeah. Uh, you, you asked me
Speaker 2:That what needs to be done for, for this to be successful?
Speaker 3:Well, it depends on, at what point do you call it a success? Right. So I think it's a success already because I started nine months ago. And today I have 1,400 people that, uh, uh, get, uh, the information I curate every week and about, uh, just to throw some metrics in there, if there is someone interested, an average email that I send out, uh, every Thursday, uh, it gets about 50% of like open rate. That's very high. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So that's always been like fun for me to see as well.
Speaker 2:I used to do internet marketing and we were kind of happy if it's like 3%.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, either in marketing is on a whole other level of living. Right. But usually the newsletter is that kind of content it's basis. Anything around like 22, I think 40, uh, and on the, the higher ones are at 50 or more. So I have some issues that are like 60%, some 40, 45, but, uh, I can also measure how well the headlines click and all that kind of stuff. There's a whole science behind how to kind of get people, uh, enjoy your content. Right. So I'm always testing, but I'm not focusing on it too much because I still want to keep my voice and not go the sales route to, you can always go the sales route, trying to squeeze every little inch of the newsletter so you could get them to on an ad or something. Right. I haven't done any ads, any sponsorships, anything throughout these nine months. Okay. So now I'm, I'm at the end of this month or a middle of the next, I will launch the paid version, that kind of something that just help us grow even bigger. Right. So basically everybody that goes paid can kind of help even grow, grow this even bigger. Right. So that's the only way to go because, um, you need a team at some certain point, because now I'm doing the Thursday newsletter. I have the ed industry squared and he was there on Friday. That that's, opt-in only because there's a, the people that joined that there's like a hundred people that get that one are just, uh, I'm usually working in the industry. Right. So they need the extra detail information. So I keep, try to keep the main one that Thursday, one, like a more broad, like, like major, major releases, major important stuff, and some deep dives and some entertainment. And then I go deeper on the Friday one. So I'm sending those only to those that opt in to it, especially it's free, but it's just a special one. Right.
Speaker 2:You do take very regularly and that you seem to be quite disciplined in this. Uh, is it, um, uh, Why, why is consistency important in your mind?
Speaker 3:Well, uh, if I'm, let's say somebody subscribes, right? So I'm on the welcome email. I'm already writing them that I will throw up a newsletter to your inbox every Thursday evening. Right then time might, may vary. Right? So I'm basically making a contract. Uh, it feels for me that I'm making a contract that you know, that you can expect me to deliver, because if I failed that contract and while you have no reason to trust me, right, because I'm building this to be a community. So if it's a community, you need to have like mutual trust. Right. Right now it's like one-to-one connection, like, uh, me and connecting with, uh, the subscriber, the reader, the member. But as soon as I launched a community, that's coming, this will turn to like many too many or one too many connections. Right. So this is why it needs to be a trustworthy platform. So that's why consistency is important to me. I have sent out the newsletters later than I expected when I started, I sent that. I sent them out at 6:00 PM sharp. Right now it's more like a 10:00 PM or something just because, uh, at first I had like a hundred data points, probably the kind of put together, but now I've gone so much deeper that it just demands more time. So, so it's just about optimizing my own time because the newsletters aren't like the only things that I'm doing, right. So it's at the same time it's building out the rest of the resources. So it's a, it's a map that needs to be updated. Uh, well, the map is, um, Eastern one, uh, connecting all these, uh, UV industry connections. So this is, this is what I saw as an ultimate, uh, big picture resource, right? So you have an interactive map. It kind of looks like a little planet or something. And it has these 600 data points. Syringing from automakers to charge her charging, uh, companies to battery makers. And it connects them all, like who owns, who, who has invested into who and which car is using, whose batteries. Right. So it has a lot of data by still yet to add. And everyday every my, my, my main point where I want to get, I haven't gotten there exactly. Just because of the time. That's why I need someone to join the team as well. It is whenever I send out the newsletter, I email immediately get more data points that I should add to the industry map as well. Right. So all the connections, but that also takes time to take it from the newsletter, put it there. Right. So it's a, maybe I can automate it someday, but I don't think so because there are like, uh, uh, kind of holistic connections, right? So, and then there's the stock director. If I have a new stock, I will add it there. And then, uh, I'm also doing a deal based now I'm building it out. It's, it's something that I think will be valuable for the, like the startups working in the HIV space and for the VCs, the venture capitalists that I will list every, uh, known, uh, Evie connected deal that has been come through. Right. They investments, acquisitions, everything like that, just, but that also like demands that the data entry, right. Whenever I find something new, so it's, uh, it's challenging to feed it all into the one week, putting it to them. And I can finding, finding the data can be even more difficult, I guess, than just entering it. True. True. But that's the thing like entering the data, you always have to be mindful of how you enter it and where, right. So it's, uh, it's not just like, uh, since I have this sentence here, it will take out a metric. It is this number, this number, this number, right. So it's always those connections between each other and the backstories, especially the backstories is what makes it like a resource because everyone can just, you know, put numbers on a table. That doesn't mean anything, right. So you need to have the backstory into it, tidy infant. So eventually I'm thinking that this would be tied all together really well, that everything that appears on the newsletter will be on the databases that it needs to be in, you know, all the information. So it's all connected. So you will always have that, like the connected view. And you can always go down those rabbit holes that, Hey, I have the, I don't know, so that my MicroVest is, uh, I dunno, producing batteries for this mining company. Then you go deeper. You see that this mining company is supplying lithium to, I don't know, Tesla. Right. So you have all these connections you can go down down to right now. It's, it's still a bit on the surface level, but we're getting there. Okay. Yeah. I can ramble about this all day. So,
Speaker 2:But then, uh, my question now is that you do this, you go through this material and data points, like so much, so you become really good at it. What do you think top? So, yeah. So, um, uh, is this, uh, what you're really good at, or is this something that there is something else that you're very good at as well?
Speaker 3:For me, I think, um, I think finding information has always been my, my strong side. I've been, always been like, uh, uh, I don't wanna use the word researcher. Uh, even as a school kid, I always participated on the, you know, the, I don't know what you call it, Olympics championships or whatever you call it, uh, on info searching where you had a team that, uh, three persons on a team, uh, two persons, two people go to the, uh, books. They have to, you, you get like a sheet of paper and you have the questions on them, like really random from all kinds of like, uh, what was the name of the first, uh, I dunno, like Pope, you know, whatever, and you need to search, answer those and you need to cite the sources as well. And if you, you get one point for answer, you get one point for the book source and you get one point for the interim source. Right. So I was always thinking through an it guy. So we always want those things. And, uh, I was always the internet guy, and that was, I think, 15 years ago or so. So I've always been like the kind of guy that searches and Googles and goes like deep on those into those rabbit holes. So, so this is just me being able to kind of express myself through that.
Speaker 2:So you you've, you have become very good at finding information I'd like to think. And, um, and, uh, so, so you have this information in your head now and, uh, it's, it's very good for me to ask, like, okay, what kind of patterns or opportunities you see, or what is, what do you think is like interesting, uh, out of all the things, you know, or what are you looking forward to? What
Speaker 3:Do you think what might happen in the future? Uh, okay. In the industry. Yes. Uh, that's a hard one because there's so many, like, it's, it's a whole ecosystem, right. I think, uh, I think under suit set, set that today that, uh, that you don't look at the electric cars as just cars, right. There's a whole ecosystem that ties into it. So you have, uh, the chargers, you have the batteries, you have the, all the management systems, you have the, all the supply chain. Right. So I'm what I'm seeing right now is that, uh, the whole focus is on the supply chain. Um, and there will be like bottlenecks. There will be like strong bottlenecks. Like we have an exponential growth basically of the adoption. It's, it's because of many factors, right. The governments, uh, the automakers themselves that are connected to it. And, and, uh, uh, people changing their mind about electric cars because we have quite many already. Right. So, so what I see is that, uh, the supply chain of everything that's connected to it, I mean, you have the supply chain ready for traditional cars, but the electric cars have some features that need a whole other kind of, uh, um, perspective batteries are like the obvious one. Right. But even connected with batteries are like, uh, several kind of, um, kind of, I don't know how to call it, like the rabbit holes kind of ways to go down on it. Like, uh, for example, you have the, the capital, the nano, uh, production, but you also have the, like the battery management system production, you have the different, uh, uh, source materials all together. Like if you're using the NMC batteries, right. The nickel manganese cobalt, I think it's, uh, you have the, especially like the on mainstream media has always been kind of cobalt situation, right. Using their child labor and everything. Um, and so you have the NMC, you have the LSP, that's now becoming more and more popular as like a cheaper alternative. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, well basically lithium iron phosphate. Right. So, yeah. So, so it's, uh, it's cheaper. Right. But it's, uh, features aren't as good. Right. So basically, as far as I understand you can correct. Correct me if I'm wrong then, uh, but basically the LFB the batteries pack less density. Uh, they're, they're less dense, so they will give you a less range. Right. But they are cheaper to make. Uh, I'm not sure about the, like the longevity of either one of those either in MC, but I know that for example, Tesla said, uh, on one of their conference calls that, uh, they would be, uh, um, doing like high-end models on M NMC and lower end models on LFP. Right. And then you have a whole other, like, kind of wild card coming in at, they do say that it's probably like 20, 24, 20, 25 is the solid state batteries. Right. So that could be a whole quick game changer. And that also could just fizzle out and mean nothing. Right. So it's there there's, we are still in the, uh, in the situation where there is so much technological advancement happening that we don't know what tomorrow brings. And that's exciting. Right. So about 10 years that we've had this, uh, kind of modern era of electrification electric cars, the Tiber is really like two cars then, um, we've already advanced so much. Right? So for example, if I, if I bought a Nissan leaf on 2012 and the Nissan leaf on 2021, they cost the same, right. Because the same as it did like nine years ago, but I get a, get a three times better. Car factory is three times better. And it's just talking
Speaker 2:About the battery and the car itself is so small and
Speaker 3:Vetted. Exactly, exactly. So, so basically you're seeing a major technological advancement without, uh, increasing the price. So when, when you reach a certain technological advancement, uh, that's suitable for an everyday driver, you can then start lowering the cost, right. So that's, what's going to happen now, uh, most likely where we're going to be able to reduce the costs, uh, either the automakers take it down the MSRP price or not, we don't know. Right. You can always make them, uh, make them cheaper, like, uh, produce them cheaper, but the end price who knows what that will be. Right. So I have no idea if that 2023, like I mentioned before is a price parity point because that's read up to the automakers, right? It's not up to, like, if the production costs are low, they might just want to get more margin. Right. So you never know. So,
Speaker 2:Right, right. Now I'm quite positive because of that. So strict norms they have to meet through in selling electric vehicles like this 95 grams of CO2 per kilometer is really difficult to reach, which is hybrid salary. And
Speaker 3:That's true. Yeah, it is. But I think that's also a level where maybe the compliance CVS still kind of do a, you know, they might not have to focus and like all ed models, a new models that much, like if we saw today, like 40 different electric cars here, I assume about like 20, at least, or maybe even more, maybe 30 of those are actually just like gas cars converted to electric. Right. So then just slap a battery in it and put it on a charger and let's go, right. So they don't even change the Chessies. So it's, it's kind of, I don't know. I I've, I've never, all of all the EVs I've driven, the real, like wow. Experiences have gotten, have been only for, from those cars that are easy from start right from the ground up like this, like this Tesla that we sit in, it's been a Navy from the ground up. The SCADA in yak is a wonderful car it's it was designed as an SUV from the start and also the ionic ionic five. Right. So may like the big wheel base, uh, and everything they've done there it's, it's magnificent and it can be done because you designed it easily first, just like, uh, a Petrel one, right? Yeah. So, so yeah, went down that rabbit hole a bit, but, uh, but that's, that's what I think
Speaker 2:Let's bring some buzzwords in topics like, um, vehicle to greet autonomous driving. Um, what else is sexy, sexy in what's happening in the electric vehicles? I don't know. Maybe an acceleration is interesting company. So what do you think, what do you think about all those? Like so
Speaker 3:We could agree. Um, definitely a good idea. Anything you can integrate through really, to our everyday lives is, is great. I think, because that will also work on that total cost of ownership for the car. Right. So you will get extra features from something that you already have. I think that's magnificent if they can do it well. Right. So you have to have like a, uh, a system where you don't degrade the battery because of it and all that kind of stuff. Right. But, uh, when it comes to autonomous driving, um, no idea. The stuff I see on Tesla doing a full self-driving is like, not it's, it's, it's crazy what they do. And I hope they succeed as well, but I don't know, I've always been a driver, like driving myself. I don't even have like the close experience we did that. I just tried out, uh, uh, again, on the driving on the autopilot and erupt. And I don't know if you saw this model tree here has the FSD visualization preview as well. He didn't see it. Yeah. So it's, uh, it's showing kind of the preview of what the FST would see, not as good as in the us, but it would, for example, record this guy, walking past the car and it would understand exactly where it is. So it just uses the cameras then takes it to data points and then render something on your screen. It's it's awesome. Like nobody else is that far, I think yet. So there, yeah. I think there's so much there. I'm not a Tesla fan boy. Right. And I also try to avoid, sometimes tastes like the universe just because, you know, everybody has coverage, so you don't want that you want the whole industry picture, but I can't help it. Like they're advancing the technology. Well, I don't cover autonomous technology much just because I need to focus on one niche because it will get a really broad really fast. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, so it's kind of like, uh, going into, into this direction that, uh, I'm trying to avoid Tesla, but they always try to advance EVs so much that it's hard to not to cover them. Right. So it's kind of a, that kind of situation.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, right now we're here at, uh, in the Tesla. Uh, but do you drive a Nissan leaf, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. 2000. Well, I drive different cars really because, uh, as you know, I'm, I'm also selling some Leafs because that's what I did as society kind of a, a part of my job, like a really small part was just selling the old used, uh, taxi leaves. So I'm, uh, always also driving those leaves because then I know what I'm selling. Right. So I'm still helping them out on that. So I'm driving all these different, uh, different cars all the time, but, uh, yeah. Uh, I think right now I'm, I'm done with the last 2017 leaf, and now I'm going to sell the 2018 Leafs. So I'm at that point right now I've sold 52 53 leaves altogether in three years. All right. Just, just like, you know, going best, you know? Okay. The second.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's a half a million worth of cars or I dunno, it's just a rough estimation. Oh, I haven't,
Speaker 3:I haven't calculated the 50 cars times. I think that average price is like 10, 11. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Both. Right. But then, um, let's talk about, um, the F ups and, uh, like what I've learned from them. I, I don't know. W would you have like more stories to share from my legs with actual time or, uh, or Eve universe time, or even very cool to see you or hear if you have some so-called experiences experience Rangers that yeah. It's taught you something valuable.
Speaker 3:Well, there's definitely tons. It's just hard to remember it. And I guess, yeah, I made it, the first thing I remembered was that a democracy sucks, sorry for the word, you know, it's true. Okay. I especially saw it when a founding, the elected Alto rent, the, the company that was, uh, that is renting, uh, cars, uh, electric cars. Right. So, so we started that, we gathered the, I raised quarter a quarter million euros, uh, from like, uh, retail investors, right. Just to buy out the cars and rent them. Uh, and you know, even even doing that from through social media, they didn't have too much bureaucracy. Right. Uh, I also, uh, talk with the finance inspection and everything. It was all good. But then as soon as, uh, the, I had to kind of filing the paperwork with the government, uh, the bureaucracy started and it's, it's never stopping. It's just terrible. And we saw it on the electric toxo as well. There's, I mean, the government here has been kind of like trying to be helpful at times, but we've been also shutting the legs so many times just because of, you know, you're dealing with, uh, officials somewhere that doesn't, that don't care about electric cars at all, you know, and you have to deal with them. And, uh, we've been, uh, yeah, we've been shut down, uh, from the government and from other instances a lot. So there, there is a lot of, kind of like hard stories to learn from, especially in Electrolux society and the universe, not so much because I'm always adapting. Right. So, so it's just like, I can't go down that road. I would just choose another. Right. Just make it happen. Okay.
Speaker 2:I, I can imagine that, uh, if you're in an rental business where you each have a rental and the taxi business, then you must be very careful, like you have this month expense that you have every month. Uh, and then I, that demand fluctuates a lot, the other,
Speaker 3:You know, that right. So
Speaker 2:You, you were part of a Electrolux and then international rent during the COVID times as well. Yeah. Okay. All right. So you had some fun there.
Speaker 3:Uh, if you're a taxi company during the first heat of COVID-19, our revenue fell 77%, 77%. Yeah. Uh, well, rest of the Estonian taxi businesses fell, uh, 80 to 90%, so we're mostly 90%. So we were still good because we were, uh, on the topic. Yeah. And, uh, we were, uh, yeah, we knew that the COVID was coming when nobody else did. So we, uh, already bought some masks, uh, and we were the first taxi company to put on masks and that kind of stuff and gloves and gloves as well. But back then we knew that, uh, that this might be way deadlier than it really is. Right. Uh, yeah, the information was different from
Speaker 2:Abroad. Okay. So what did he do?
Speaker 3:Uh, we survived,
Speaker 2:Well, how did he survive? What did he do there?
Speaker 3:Well, uh, I think the main, like, uh, fall of this, or the main kind of, uh, how do you call it? Um, the main one, uh, getting us out of this mess was, uh, the, my concern. Yeah. Yeah. So basically it's, uh, the main job of, uh, adapting the company did, uh, to the new reality really of the COVID the reality was, uh, was falling on the CEO, uh, Aramark. Okay. But, uh, it was definitely hard times for the whole, all of the kind of team and the taxi drivers as well.
Speaker 2:So what happened? He said, yeah, I was trying to unplug a CCS cable from the car and, uh, there were like five people working on it, I think could just couldn't do it. Um, it's just what happens. We are actually stopping at one of the oldest chargers in Estonia. So maybe that is the reason. So we'll see. We'll see. But is there anything else you want to be like wrap up with this story that you were telling about the Electrolux, Ohio, how, um, uh, how you survived COVID or you feel that you pretty much,
Speaker 3:I think I've covered most of it. It was hard. It's still hard, you know, it's still coming back and everything, but, uh, you know, these are just times when you cut down the factories, you know, you go for the efficiency, you don't go for that kind of spending too much or being inefficient again, you can be inefficient at good times. And do you need to focus that you can be efficient, really efficient with everything you have on the hard times? So that's, that's the main, major, key way electric excise is so strong efficiency. Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I bet, uh, some hard decisions had to be made at the time, so for sure. Hey, maybe, maybe that's a good topic for another time, but let's wrap this up, uh, as of now. Yep. Thank you so much. I, it was fun talking, talking with you. Thanks. Yeah. What a crazy day. We both presented here at[inaudible] and, uh, it's been a packed day. Uh it's good. So, um, and, uh, for the listeners, um, eh, if, if you like this then awesome, great. You can share it. You can like it, but what is most valuable for me is just feedback. What, what did you like? What did you perhaps don't like, didn't like something I could do better. So this information helps me to grow this podcast a lot until, uh, Martin, if you never want to hear from behind again. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. Good deal. All right.